tag:support.multimarkdown.com,2013-02-12:/discussions/problems-v4/34-does-not-properly-preview-tables-from-github-readmesMultiMarkdown Software, LLC: Discussion 2017-10-12T18:47:24Ztag:support.multimarkdown.com,2013-02-12:Comment/435103412017-09-20T20:03:17Z2017-09-22T17:47:17ZDoes not properly preview tables from GitHub READMEs<div><p>MMC 4.0.2(56) doesn't preview some tables in GitHub README files, example file and screenshot provided.</p>
<p>iMac 7,1 OS X 10.11.6</p></div>Stuart Hertzogtag:support.multimarkdown.com,2013-02-12:Comment/435103412017-09-20T21:45:46Z2017-09-22T17:47:17ZDoes not properly preview tables from GitHub READMEs<div><p>Stuart,</p>
<p>Add a <code>|</code> to the end of the table separator line:</p>
<table>
<tr>
<th>name</th>
<th>default</th>
<th>description</th>
</tr>
</table>
<p>I'll look at MMD-6 and see why that is required.</p>
<p>F-</p></div>Fletchertag:support.multimarkdown.com,2013-02-12:Comment/435103412017-09-20T22:02:02Z2017-09-22T17:47:17ZDoes not properly preview tables from GitHub READMEs<div><p>Hmmm... More interesting to me -- when I paste your text in, none is processed by the syntax highlighter, until I edit small parts.</p>
<p>Found the edge case that was being triggered, so that will be fixed for 4.0.3</p>
<p>So two birds (bugs?) with one stone!</p>
<p>F-</p></div>Fletchertag:support.multimarkdown.com,2013-02-12:Comment/435103412017-09-20T22:09:32Z2017-09-22T17:47:17ZDoes not properly preview tables from GitHub READMEs<div><p>I also noticed the lack of syntax highighting, but it didn't reappear<br>
after editing, although ssome files highlighted properly.</p>
<p>Adding | to the end of the table separator line did nothing for the<br>
Preview, nor adding | to the end of each row, but that table has always<br>
displayed properly in Marked2 no matter what mods I put in.</p></div>Stuart Hertzogtag:support.multimarkdown.com,2013-02-12:Comment/435103412017-09-20T22:20:19Z2017-09-22T17:47:17ZDoes not properly preview tables from GitHub READMEs<div><p>Are you sure about the separator? I just checked again, being sure to<br>
use 4.0.1 and 4.0.2 from the App Store, not a development build.</p>
<p>Typing the single character '|' at the end of the second line:</p>
<table>
<tr>
<th>name</th>
<th>default</th>
<th>description</th>
</tr>
</table>
<p>Fixes it.</p>
<p>Are you sure you don't have Markdown compatibility mode turned on?<br>
Markdown doesn't have tables.</p>
<p>See attached images</p>
<p>F-</p></div>Fletchertag:support.multimarkdown.com,2013-02-12:Comment/435103412017-09-20T22:33:23Z2017-09-22T17:47:17ZDoes not properly preview tables from GitHub READMEs<div><p>Oh! Duh! Turning off MD compatibility fixes the syntax highlighting and<br>
table display issues (with your mod) Apolgies!</p></div>Stuart Hertzogtag:support.multimarkdown.com,2013-02-12:Comment/435103412017-09-20T22:40:49Z2017-09-22T17:47:17ZDoes not properly preview tables from GitHub READMEs<div><p>I'm asking in all seriousness, because you're not the only one doing this. Not even the only one today.</p>
<p>Why does everyone keep turning on the Markdown compatibility mode and then act surprised when things that aren't Markdown don't work?</p>
<p>;)</p>
<p>Do I need to put a "Are you really sure you want to push this button?" warning???</p>
<p>:)</p>
<p>Fletcher</p>
<p>PS> I am serious -- I don't want to take that option away (some people do want "pure" Markdown, but I suspect a vanishingly small percentage of users even know what that means). But I also wonder if it causes more harm than good. Input welcome!</p></div>Fletchertag:support.multimarkdown.com,2013-02-12:Comment/435103412017-09-20T22:47:52Z2017-09-22T17:47:17ZDoes not properly preview tables from GitHub READMEs<div><p>I was already thinking about this as I do know the difference between MD<br>
and MMD.</p>
<p>The problem is that the switch is buried in the Preferences, and there<br>
is no indication that MMC is in MD or MMD mode. Would that be possible<br>
to program into the display somewhere?</p>
<p>Another way is to have this toggled automatically if the file extension<br>
is .md or .mmd and alert users to this.</p>
<p>Stuart</p></div>Stuart Hertzogtag:support.multimarkdown.com,2013-02-12:Comment/435103412017-09-20T22:58:27Z2017-09-22T17:47:17ZDoes not properly preview tables from GitHub READMEs<div><ul>
<li>
<p>File extensions are not reliable (I use .md and almost never use .mmd, but as you can imagine almost always use MMD features). There's enough<br>
trouble with file extensions and UTI's that I am not going to make that<br>
any worse... ;)</p>
</li>
<li>
<p>This used to be available as a toggle menu item but:</p>
<ol>
<li>This seemed to unnecessarily clutter the menu bar as I suspect it is almost never used</li>
</ol>
</li>
</ul>
<pre>
<code>2. Which requires tracking on a per window basis which adds additional</code>
</pre>
<p>complexity with (seemingly) little benefit.</p>
<p>Do you turn it on and off for different files? If so, why (again, I'm<br>
asking not challenging)? There's nothing that can be done in regular<br>
Markdown but not in MMD, except for a couple of very slight differences<br>
(that I can think of). For example:</p>
<ul>
<li>
<p><code>#Header</code> (with no space) is valid in Markdown, but not in MMD (and not in commonmark and a few others). In this case, I suspect most users<br>
are going to learn quickly to use the space at all times.</p>
</li>
<li>
<p>Compatibility mode turns off a few preferences, such as anchors in headers, footnotes, etc. However, these can be turned off individually<br>
in the preferences without the side effect of killing every other MMD<br>
feature that you are using.</p>
</li>
</ul>
<p>I was trying to "hide" the setting in the prefs to keep it out of the<br>
way, except for those who really need it.</p>
<p>Fletcher</p></div>Fletchertag:support.multimarkdown.com,2013-02-12:Comment/435103412017-09-21T00:56:11Z2017-09-22T17:47:17ZDoes not properly preview tables from GitHub READMEs<div><p>As MMD is the default (after all, it's called MultiMarkdown Composer!)<br>
perhaps some alert (small red box upper right of editor?) when MD mode<br>
is switched on? Or, the alert could display when a table is encountered<br>
in MD mode? As it makes a difference as to whether or not tables are<br>
displayed, something like that is needed, IMHO. Users are busy thinking<br>
about other things.</p>
<p>Stuart</p></div>Stuart Hertzogtag:support.multimarkdown.com,2013-02-12:Comment/435103412017-09-21T01:00:58Z2017-09-22T17:47:17ZDoes not properly preview tables from GitHub READMEs<div><p>But why did you turn it on? Playing around with preferences and forgot<br>
about it? Or needed it on purposefully for one document, and then<br>
forgot when you switched to a new document? Needed to verify that your<br>
document would work on a different system somewhere?</p>
<p>Trying to understand the reasoning behind the behavior so I can provide<br>
the right solution.</p>
<p>The <em>only</em> reason I "flip the switch" is to test that it works. I never<br>
need it in real life.</p>
<p>It's totally possible that the right solution is to remove the<br>
preference and force "expert" users to set the defaults in the terminal<br>
(hidden feature).</p>
<p>But without understanding why people use it, I'll probably implement a<br>
bad solution, rather than a good one.</p>
<p>Again -- thanks for your thoughts on this!</p></div>Fletchertag:support.multimarkdown.com,2013-02-12:Comment/435103412017-09-21T03:13:42Z2017-09-22T17:47:17ZDoes not properly preview tables from GitHub READMEs<div><p>I plead guilty to all charges, M'Lord!  But as you discovered, I'm not<br>
alone in doing this. As MMD is a superset of MD, for most people there's<br>
no need to change it, but it gets changed willy-nilly. As sole developer<br>
and support person, you want to reduce this user error, so you either<br>
use the command-line option, or create some kind of alert for the<br>
ignorant or forgetful.</p>
<p>As I've been suggesting, I personally favour the latter: some kind of<br>
sign or alert that either shows the state of this preference, or warns<br>
people of the dire consequences should they attempt to change the<br>
Preference. Ideally, I'd like to see both, but of these two, I would<br>
give priority to an on-screen MD indicator (e.g. a little red box) that<br>
pops up a warning when hovered over.</p>
<p>Hope that helps!</p>
<p>Stuart</p></div>Stuart Hertzogtag:support.multimarkdown.com,2013-02-12:Comment/435103412017-09-21T03:14:56Z2017-09-22T17:47:16ZDoes not properly preview tables from GitHub READMEs<div><p>;)</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>F-</p></div>Fletchertag:support.multimarkdown.com,2013-02-12:Comment/435103412017-09-21T15:06:35Z2017-09-22T17:47:16ZDoes not properly preview tables from GitHub READMEs<div><p>You asked the question 'Why does everyone keep turning on the Markdown compatibility mode and then act surprised when things that aren't Markdown don't work?'.</p>
<p>As one of the other people who was head scratching when a table didn't render I guess the semantics of the checkbox label suggested (to me at least) that this widens the compatibility rather than narrows the features. Yes, I know that MMD > MD, but it wasn't obvious to me that this turned OFF full MMD support. If it was labelled something like 'Use Markdown format only' might have made it clearer.</p></div>lindsaytag:support.multimarkdown.com,2013-02-12:Comment/435103412017-09-21T15:43:53Z2017-09-22T17:47:16ZDoes not properly preview tables from GitHub READMEs<div><p>Thanks for the feedback!</p>
<p>F-</p></div>Fletchertag:support.multimarkdown.com,2013-02-12:Comment/435103412017-09-21T16:14:31Z2017-09-22T17:47:16ZDoes not properly preview tables from GitHub READMEs<div><p>I think it has to do with semantics. What is Markdown? I know it may be a pet peeve of yours since you developed MultiMarkDown, but I just call "MMD," "Markdown" all the time. I am guessing that is the case with a lot of people.</p>
<p>May be make the option a lot clearer. Something like "Eliminate Multimarkdown features and do Markdown only."</p></div>tuxtlequinotag:support.multimarkdown.com,2013-02-12:Comment/435103412017-09-21T16:29:32Z2017-09-22T17:47:16ZDoes not properly preview tables from GitHub READMEs<div><p><br>
So that I am not accused of trying to hijack Gruber's "brand" -- Markdown and MultiMarkdown are definitely two distinct things, though clearly related.</p>
<p>Gruber created Markdown (both the syntax and the original Perl implementation). It was great, but (in opinion of many) needed more.</p>
<p>MultiMarkdown is one (of many) supersets of the Markdown functionality. It can do everything Markdown does, and adds more (e.g. tables, footnotes, metadata, etc.)</p>
<p>It is almost like being in the American South and knowing that "Pepsi" is a perfectly valid answer to the question, "What kind of Coke would you like?"</p>
<p>Partially (IMO) because Markdown has not been touched in roughly 10 years, it has become more often used as a generic term for any of a group of loosely related implementations that process variations of the original syntax.</p>
<p>That said, many people call MMD, Github-Flavored Markdown, commonmark, and many others "Markdown". I get it, but I feel compelled not to encourage it.<br></p></div>Fletchertag:support.multimarkdown.com,2013-02-12:Comment/435103412017-09-21T17:37:31Z2017-09-22T17:47:16ZDoes not properly preview tables from GitHub READMEs<div><p>This thread has been an interesting example of what I see as a broader issue in software engineering. Creative development very often is performed excellently by skilled programmers very immersed in their specialist domain, working in medium-size or small companies, or even one-person shops. But the majority of their users do not have the specialised knowledge of the developer; they view the finished product through a very different lens.</p>
<p>Only the larger software companies can hire UI specialists and technical writers to translate the technical foundation into a GUI understandable by all levels of user. Even here, UI issues can arise, e.g. Apple's current WiFi toggle issue in iOS 11. As a former writer, editor, and occasional technical writer, my approach was always from the viewpoint of the non-savant. If I could not understand something without prior knowledge, it wasn't being explained properly.</p>
<p>Right now, for lack of input from UI experts, a plethora of useful but specialised software lacks a user-friendly interface. MultiMarkdown Composer isn't one of these: credits to Fletcher for his skill. But as a relatively new Linux user, I'm running into this issue all the time. It's frustrating and consumes my time. I believe that it accounts for the limited uptake of Linux as a desktop OS. In a perfect world, every developer would have access to a UI expert before presenting the product to the public. In reality, issues such as this arise. Fortunately, they can be dealt with through forums such as this.</p>
<p>The bottom line is that no matter how technical clever a software package may be, without an excellent UI its usefulness will be limited and its support requirements increased.</p>
<p>Excuse the philosophical rambling. It's been an interesting thread!</p></div>Stuart Hertzogtag:support.multimarkdown.com,2013-02-12:Comment/435103412017-09-21T18:23:30Z2017-09-22T17:47:16ZDoes not properly preview tables from GitHub READMEs<div><p>Stuart,</p>
<p>Good points.</p>
<p>I appreciate your kind comment towards me, but I obviously fail at this<br>
sometimes too.</p>
<p>A few random thoughts:</p>
<ol>
<li>
<p>The user interface is important to me. Microsoft Word generally<br>
works well enough, but the interface is horrible. It's not as bad as<br>
"back in the day" where it was not unusual to see something like 10 rows of buttons at the top of a window, with a small area for typing. Which<br>
means that overall I think it's a terrible application and never use it.</p>
</li>
<li>
<p>The more that the interface can "disappear", the better. Composer 4<br>
(IMO) represents a big improvement over v2, which was an improvement over v1. If desired, the entire interface is literally a window with a<br>
box for typing. Or you can toggle on additional features if you need<br>
them (info bar, preview, etc).</p>
</li>
<li>
<p>macOS does a reasonable job of funneling you towards better design<br>
instead of guiding you towards disaster. That helps.</p>
</li>
<li>
<p>Windows had a history of cluttered interfaces -- lots of boxes and<br>
buttons all thrown together. I think that influenced the design of<br>
Linux GUI applications for many years. I think we have turned the<br>
corner on this, though I only use a handful of linux GUI applications,<br>
and the ones I use are more fairly classified as cross-platform (web<br>
browsers, Sublime Text, etc.)</p>
</li>
<li>
<p>I see this starkly in my other role as a physician -- the interfaces<br>
for Electronic Medical Record software are terrible.... If the<br>
individuals making the purchasing decisions had to spend more time using<br>
them, I think we would be in a different situation.</p>
</li>
<li>
<p>"Eating your own dog food" is necessary, but not sufficient. I do as<br>
much of my writing as possible in Composer, so I have to suffer the same<br>
issues as everyone else if I don't fix them. I still have to be mindful<br>
that I will still see the app in a different way than someone who is new<br>
to it.</p>
</li>
</ol>
<p>Again -- thanks for the input!</p>
<p>F-</p></div>Fletchertag:support.multimarkdown.com,2013-02-12:Comment/435103412017-09-21T20:43:54Z2017-09-22T17:47:16ZDoes not properly preview tables from GitHub READMEs<div><p>4.0.3 uses new terminology in the preferences. We'll see if the frequency of these reports decreases.</p>
<p>Thanks!</p></div>Fletchertag:support.multimarkdown.com,2013-02-12:Comment/435103412017-09-22T08:59:28Z2017-09-22T17:47:16ZDoes not properly preview tables from GitHub READMEs<div><p>4.0.3 version now looks much clearer in its intent.</p>
<p>L.</p></div>Lindsay Davies